Friday, November 13, 2009

Tueller Drill

Knife guys like to point at the Tueller Drill, which basically says that a holstered gun against a drawn knife, inside twenty feet or so, the knife wins.

Not against this guy:

video

Bob Munden is a trick shooter, kind of guy who can split playing cards, spin a half-dollar, drive nails, and all like that with a handgun. Before the Guiness Book of World Records dropped the category, Munden was rated the fastest gunslinger in the world. See why?

Or this guy ...



12 comments:

Master Plan said...

I thought the Tueller Drill was more along the lines of an unready LEO (ie, hand not on gun) drawing from a retention holster (like so: http://reviews.uscav.com/UserReview.aspx?productid=6988) while being verbally engaged prior to the knifer starting their charge (which is required in some cases to get the rush to work, means that retreating while breaking to the side *can* work if done after the knifer has committed to the rush).

There's no shoot\don't-shoot involved in those clips either.

;-)

Of course you know all that and them dudes are just plain awesome fast and that wasn't really the point anyway, but.....

jks9199 said...

Those shooters are impressive as hell -- but they're also shooting with heavily modified/customized rigs.

Steve Perry said...

Sure, it's fast draw, and what are the chances you'll run into one of these guys on the street?

On the other hand, ever read "No Second Place Winner?"

When Bill Jordan was in the Border Patrol (ICE, these day), he could pull a .357 Magnum from his duty rig and hit a target in just over 0.3/seconds ...

Steve Perry said...

I thought I'd point out that there is a bit of a trick involved in this kind of balloon-breaking fancy shooting.

Players use wax bullets. In the old days, they would pop the bullet out of a live round, pour the powder out, and press the shell into a cake of paraffin, with the resulting round being driven by the primer.

Now, you can buy commercial rounds for your six gun. Special shells that take a shotgun primer, hard wax, pre-formed bullets you can thumb into the shell, which makes it easier.

Mostly this wax holds together at short range, though the paraffin rounds tend to fly apart a bit because of the spin imparted by the barrel's rifling.

If you set your balloon in the middle of a steel target like the shooter did in the five-shot trick, you don't have to hit the balloon itself -- anywhere on the target will create splash that will pop the balloon.

And the timer sometimes starts when the shooter draws, so the reaction time isn't a factor.

It's still impressive, but it's not magic.

Anonymous said...

"Don't bring a gun to a knife fight."
-Dennis Tueller

"Heh."
-Bob Munden

Travis said...

Look, if they can't pull this kind of shooting off in the octagon against a real opponent then clearly guns have no applicapility to fighting on the street. Once they get in the clinch it's all over, no one can resist the power of MMA!

If guns were so good you'd see them in the UFC! All of you Tueller drill people are living in fantasy land!

jks9199 said...

No -- you've taken the wrong message from the Tueller Drill... and so have so many others.

It PROVES the superiority of MMA. You can't draw a gun fast enough to take down the charging knife man... but you can always shoot in for the double leg takedown!

Anonymous said...

Something looked a little weird about the Munden video, so I watched it a few more times...

That was single-action.

Jesus....

Steve Perry said...

Yeah, single action. The whole video of Bob -- this one shot in the eighties -- shows him making other shots, and he uses the single-action fast-draw rig. Gun is canted high, the shot is fanned, and it goes off soon as the muzzle clears the leather, a true hip shot.

The guy busting five balloons is more impressive, he pulls the piece clear, and cleans them, left, right, top, middle, bottom. Of course the timer doesn't start until he draws, and it's a special rig and gun designed to be fanned.

But like I said, Bill Jordan's .357 Magnum, save for a shaved trigger guard, was a stock gun from his (unsnapped) duty holster, which was how he normally wore it, snapping it only if he thought he was going to be dancing.

I saw him shoot once, thirty-odd years ago, and he could pick aspirin tablets off a table top point shooting.

Ed McGivern used to use a stock .38 Special and shoot through the holes in washers, and hit a can thrown into the air six times before it came down.

Not a lot of guys around can shoot like that, but you never know if you pull a knife that maybe you aren't looking at one of 'em ...

Anonymous said...

In Michigan it is illegal to carry a knife concealed in any manner (a 2.5" pocket knife excepted)so using a knife is NEVER an option. If he is within the 20 feet it means he is going to be on top of you before you get your first shot off. Will you get cut? Yes! Will anyone try to say you were wrong in starting to draw at 20 feet? No prosecuter that I know.

Steve Perry said...

Actually, a 2.5" blade limit doesn't take away the knife option. Most of the major blood vessels in a human body are easily within reach of a blade that length.

Longer is better, but short can get the job done if you know how.

staff said...

http://www.youtube.com/pekiti

I am a knife/sword guy. Yeah, if you know it is a drill before it just happens out of random chance, you perform better. And most random stabbing happen at LESS THAN 21 FEET, the 21 feet idea is this is the longest range where the knife guy poses a danger.