Friday, January 29, 2010

Stealth Pain

So, I was playing with the youngest grandson today and tossing him onto the couch and all, and I noticed a pain in my ribs on the right side.

Oh, crap, I hope I didn't pull anything ...

Then I had a look and realized that the sore spot had nothing to do with dropping the little 'un onto the cushions, but was a residual effect of the most recent silat class, wherein Edwin, doing the outside high-stab defense, kept punching me. We must have done that thirty or forty times, at least. And he does not want for accuracy, hitting the same place every time.

Ache explained, and no big deal.

Sometimes don't notice these kinds of low-grade injuries for a day or two, and then have a moment of wonder as I shuffle through the memories to see if I can find the cause: What did I do?

Oh, that Edwin. Beating up on a poor old man like me. It's a shame, really it is.

14 comments:

Edwin Voskamp said...

Observant readers may have noticed that in this tale the poor old man was the one trying to stab some unsuspecting innocent.

Steve Perry said...

Nonsense, I was just trying to protect myself from attack by a human-orangutan run amok. Man can hit you from across the room with those Reed Richards arms ...

James said...

Abuse of the elderly. You should file charges.

Bobbe Edmonds said...

>"We must have done that thirty or forty times, at least. And he does not want for accuracy, hitting the same place every time."<

I tend to block or parry the attack after the first time or two, realizing there is an opening in my defense that some cheese-swilling Dutch boy is trying to tunnel back to Holland through with a rusty butterknife.

But...That's just me. I don't have quite so much, ah, AGE working against me.

Edwin Voskamp said...

Bobbe, Steve was the one with the knife. This cheese-swilling Dutch boy's parrying was what Steve is complaining about hurting.

And I'm neither from Holland, nor trying to tunnel back my way there, despite spending time here with people who drinki odd, odd beers and don't know their knives.

jks9199 said...

I hate those "when did I do that?" bruises and injuries...

I've got one right now that I've just got no clue when or how it happened... and you'd think I'd have noticed it.

Bobbe Edmonds said...

Look, Edwin, just because some of us don't walk around with the entire Cold Steel Christmas catalog arsenal stuffed down our pants doesn't mean we don't know our knives. I just don't feel the need to fillet a person into a plate of cold cuts and serve them with a light salad covered with a lovely vinaigrette after stabbing them. Quality over quantity, meine freunde.

Odd beers? ODD BEERS?!?!?

...I'm not even going to dignify that with an answer. Well, with much of an answer, anyway. You and Perry both, you just love to piss on my beers.

Steve Perry said...

Well, Bobbe is being facetious in the comment about not blocking, but for those who don't know ....

The point in this drill was to learn a specific response for a specific attack.

Attacker stabs high-line and leaves his low-line open, then such-and-such is a viable response. If he covers the low-line, then you do something else. One size doesn't fit all.

The nature of step-drills is that the attacker limits himself to a certain attack and the defender does the same, until you get it down.

This requires that players leave openings that, if they know any better, they wouldn't. You need the experience so that if such an opportunity comes up, you can take advantage of it.

Both players are learning the pluses and minuses of attack and defense. I'm not going to stab somebody in such a way that gives him a free shot that might put me down, not if I can help it.

Learning what *not* to do is as much a part of it as anything.

Edwin and I took the moves further. Okay, you do that, what is my best option? If that knee comes up, how best to stop it? If you can clear my hand, what does that give you? Every move has a counter. But you need the basic drill before you start adding in the options.

In the real world, it is unlikely that the knifer is going to offer a single thrust and then hang his arm out there like like a clothes line and patiently wait on you to take advantage of it. But you start with a single attack and then add to it. The knife is coming, but it'll be retracting and coming back again and again unless you can stop it. We all know that. But you don't expect to be able to deal with calculus until you can add and subtract ...

Edwin Voskamp said...

Pissing ON your beers, Bobbe?

Judging by the taste of some of those odd beers, I think you have the causality wrong there.

Actually, you know what that Chimay Blue Cheese reminds me of? When we were kids we would make a drink by soaking liquorice in water.

Bobbe Edmonds said...

Oh yeah? Well...YOU'RE STOOPID!!

James said...

Real world knifings in prison and other places indicate the attacks come in two flavors - the "woodpecker", an overhand icepick grip and the "sewing machine", an under hand saber grip. Both attacks are rapid fire. Bam-bam-bam-bam. There is no hanging of the arm. I saw an interview with a felon who'd done multiple knifings and he was asked about technique. He looked puzzled. "Technique? There's no technique. You get up your courage, stick him 'till he stops moving, and then bind your wounds." If you're training for another kid of attack, you're probably training to fight another Silat guy.

James said...

kind. kind of attack. I'm a piss-poor typist

Steve Perry said...

James --

We are training to fight somebody who knows how to use a knife effectively and efficiently. Both the demented woodpecker and the leather-awl stitch attack with a shiv can kill you, sure enough, but both are -- for want of a better word -- *easier* to deal with than an attacker who knows how to use the knife in concert with his other tools.

We very much believe that punches, elbows, knees, etc. AND the knife are more effective than the blade alone.

An attacker who gives you something to block might be doing so on purpose, and you might get only one mistake if you guess wrong.

So, yeah, we are training to deal with folks who have more than one weapon in their arsenal. If we can do that, and all they got is the blade, then we are ahead of the game.

If we don't consider those other tools and they bring them? If the guy with the knife puts a knee into your groin while both your hands are busy with the blade, that might be enough to give him a free half-second.

Bad.

If I can deal with a silat guy who spends a lot of time playing with sharps, dealing with somebody who has no training gives me less to worry about.

And as I have said many times here before, I don't want to be facing anybody up close and personal who has a knife, whether I've got one of my own or not. Blood is gonna flow at the very least. If I have a knife and you don't, I like my chances better than yours -- I have the same tools you have, and the knife. How is any of that not in my favor?

Yeah, yeah, we can get back into the see-it-coming/don't-see-it-coming discussion but I've made my position on that pretty clear. You have to draw the line somewhere, and once we get into the "But what if I did *this!*" argument, then you can keep that going all night.

If I can keep Edwin from slicing and dicing me -- which is unlikely -- I expect I can keep with with somebody far less skilled.

James said...

Good point. I had a training partner that always used the phrase "Why train to defend yourself against untrained, stupid people?". I think my answer was "because that's who I usually fight with". My current philosophy is to try to immobilize the blade arm if possible but to always, always, always attack (eyes, throat, groin, etc... ) because nothing in a fight changes until injury occurs. I've only dealt with two knife attacks up close and personal. Both happened because the suspect pulled a blade before I could see it. Both times it was the damage I did to him that caused him to drop the weapon. I carry a three inch scar on my right forearm because I wasn't quick enough in one case. And, Hell, I'm 55 this year. It's not like I'm gonna get any quicker. I'll have to settle for sneaky.