First off, they are dead and literally don't care. But second?
In what universe is it okay to kill somebody, blowing them full of bullet holes or tossing them a hand grenade, raining down some big artillery, slitting a throat, whatever, but that's no sweat long as you don't piss on them afterward? Pissing on a dead guy is an atrocity? It shows disrespect? Whereas killing him is just peachy?
I mean, it's barking madness, isn't it?
What the fuck is wrong with people, they can think like that?
We are talking seriously fucked-up moral compasses here.
I don't think it's a jacked up moral compass. Desecrating the bodies of the dead has always been considered beyond the pale-back to Achilles and Hector. It's also a war crime.
ReplyDeleteCheck out what this veteran had to say.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jon-soltz/video-of-marine-atrocitie_b_1202309.html
First, their friends and family cares. Just like you wouldn't want to see your loved ones bodies paraded around.
ReplyDelete2nd: They're dead, they can't hurt anyone anymore, why were they desecrating the body?
It's about dehumanization. If we're willing to treat our enemies no better than animals, then why worry about collateral damage? Who makes peace with animals?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_mutilation_of_Japanese_war_dead#Dehumanization
We need to worry about that because these service people will be returning home and having to live with their actions for the rest of their lives.
Not saying I think it's OK. But, if you think about getting the last say to someone who was just trying to "end you" and you beat them to it?
ReplyDeleteBeing in a literal Me or You situation constantly can't be good.
I apparently didn't make my point clear: In no way do I consider pissing on a dead guy comparable to making him dead in the first place. War is not without heroic and valorous action, but it is the height of human stupidity. Gathering in large numbers to slay each other? We are not army ants. As far as we know, we are the brightest species in the universe. I expect better from somebody who sits atop the brain chain.
ReplyDeleteWar is atrocious, period. Keeping it "civilized" so as not to injure anybody's feelings is bullshit.
If we don't need to worry about hurting people's feelings in warefare, then that makes the rules of the Geneva Convention meaningless.
ReplyDeleteAt any rate, in order to find the answer to this question - you have to switch it around.
If it had been Taliban fighters, urinating on the dead bodies of Marines on camera, would we be offended and upset by that - their families; comrades?
Would we be cool with it?
Look therein, and you will find the answer to this question.
Now look.
I would be so much less concerned with Taliban pissing on dead Marines than I would be that the Marines had been killed. Can you not see why? That it is like a beheading compared to a paper cut?
ReplyDeleteFolks who got bent out of shape about pissing on a dead guy but who didn't get bent out of shape over the organized slaughter of our fellow human beings? They aren't playing with all their marbles, in my book.
Yes, sometimes violence is the answer, but generally, it shouldn't always be the first tool one reaches for.
As far as I know, we are the brightest creatures in the Universe. How wholesale killing our fellows is not more horrible than pissing on them after they are dead is a no-brainer for me.
Can you truly not see this?
- No I see your point, and it is a good and valid one.
ReplyDeleteI'm just stating for the record, also, that the dead fighters being urinated on anyway should be taken seriously as an error in conduct.
And yeah - war isn't about being all soft and gooey with your feelings and trying to take those of your opponant into consideration - however, the rules that our government proposes and desires others to conduct themselves with, are a two-way street.
If we want our people to at least be handled with some measure of respect after they've been killed, as is customary in battle, then we have to do the same with theirs.
Your overall point about the nature of killing and warfare is very astute, but we do have to worry about keeping some parts of our conduct in check, if we expect another to do the same.
"War is atrocious, period. Keeping it "civilized" so as not to injure anybody's feelings is bullshit."
*Completely agreed*, Steve.
But our government doesn't want to do it that way.
And I still believe that it's straining gnats and swallowing camels. If you want to have a rule that says, "Hey, no pissing on the dead guys." that's fine. Along with all the other rules an army imposes on its soldiers for which they risk punishment if they disobey it, no problem.
ReplyDeleteI just don't see that people running around acting like the sky is falling over that as opposed to piling up bodies are even in the same ballpark.
Which one of the early Popes was it who is credited with the line, Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius? ("Kill them all, the Lord will know His own?" Innocent the III?
Very Christian sentiment.
"And I still believe that it's straining gnats and swallowing camels. If you want to have a rule that says, "Hey, no pissing on the dead guys." that's fine. Along with all the other rules an army imposes on its soldiers for which they risk punishment if they disobey it, no problem.
ReplyDeleteI just don't see that people running around acting like the sky is falling over that as opposed to piling up bodies are even in the same ballpark."
I agree - you raised a very good point.
I don't know.. it seems like no matter what, we'll keep getting into this crap until the Confed decides to stop occupying Maro.
"Which one of the early Popes was it who is credited with the line, Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius? ("Kill them all, the Lord will know His own?" Innocent the III?
Very Christian sentiment."
Well, not Christian sentiment, but Catholic at any rate.
Abbot Arnold Amaury of Citeaux during a siege.
Jesus must have cringed when He saw the Roman Empire decide to infiltrate His body.
1 Corinthians 13:1-8a and 13
-If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
Love never fails....And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.-
Seems like the Catholic Church decided to ignore certain parts of the Word, but at least they knew how to blend well.